Transcript of Presentation: “The Hidden Dangers of the Digital World”
Presenter: Dr. Rich Greenberg (pediatrician)

Length: ~56 minutes

Introduction

[Speaker – Introducer]:
Thank you, Brother Hal. I want to introduce Rich with us. He is a pediatrician, and we’re excited for his presentation. Just so you know, Rich Greenberg was on the High Council with me for four years. I think I can trust him today. We had a great time on the High Council. I think the world of Rich, and I hope that you will gain inspiration from him. We will have some time at the end for questions and answers. I’ll turn it over to you, Rich.

Presentation by Dr. Rich Greenberg

[Dr. Rich Greenberg]:
Thank you. Thanks, Jim, for the beautiful prayer to bring the spirit, and thank you, Rob and President Wagner. Let’s go ahead and get started. Today we’ll be talking about the hidden dangers of the digital world.

By way of disclosures, I have no financial disclosures. A bit about my background: I worked as a pediatric doc up at Primary Children’s for about a decade, and I currently work as a general pediatrician in Draper for the past seventeen years. I’m not a psychiatrist or psychologist, but I do treat youth with depression, anxiety, suicide, addiction, and pornography on a very regular basis.

The objectives of today’s talk: define the prevalence of the use of cell phones and media; discuss the negative associations of the excessive use of cell phones and social media, including but not limited to anxiety, depression, suicide, and pornography; examine some potential solutions; and initiate a discussion with this group regarding these topics. There will be time for questions at the end.

In all sincerity, hopefully not offend anyone, and I mean that honestly. I think in our culture, we don’t have enough open and honest discussions about hard topics, and these are hard topics that we’re going to talk about today. There are very specific things that we need to address that you don’t usually hear from the pulpit. For better or for worse, maybe Rob made a mistake. He knows me—my personality is such that I will not shy away from talking about topics that may be challenging when I think they’re really important, especially with regard to our youth.

To that end, I’ve had more angst about giving this presentation than any presentation I can remember. I’ve presented at national and international medical meetings and many church talks, but I’ve had a lot of anxiety about this, hoping not to offend anyone, because we’ll talk about sensitive things. I will do my best to talk about it in a very professional and medical-based way, but if I do offend anyone, I truly am sorry.

I will say that there’s many people in this audience that I love and respect, and so also some pressure—the idea of disappointing or doing something that may be not looked upon in a positive way weighs heavily on me. So I fasted, I thought about this a lot, I spent a lot of time, and I prayed a lot about what to put into this, so I hope it goes well.

First and foremost, I believe and know that there is hope through Jesus Christ. To that end, I believe that we must first identify that problems exist and define the scope and severity of the problem. Understanding the grand scale of the problem can often lead to despair, but I think there’s a double-edged coin there—that understanding the problems and its specifics allows us key information that can help lead to a solution.

If I can paraphrase one of my favorite scriptures, 1 Nephi 3:7, the Lord giveth no commandment unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he desireth for them. I.e., brothers and sisters, there is hope, and we will talk about that today.

Before we get started, I want to tell you what I believe about our youth. I love our youth. I have spent over 25 years in my career dedicating myself towards the protection of the safety and welfare of children and youth, and I think they are truly amazing. They’re strong, and they’re resilient, as well, in many ways, inspirational. But let’s be honest, they are under attack. And I hope together we can discover today the details of how they’re being targeted and how to help them succeed.

Dependence on Cell Phones, Internet, and Media

So let’s talk about our dependence on cell phones and internet and media. Almost all Americans own a cell phone, and over ninety percent own a smartphone. The average American spends about five hours a day on a smartphone, and our teens spend over nine hours a day on media. Ninety-six percent of teens go online daily, and almost half are online what they would consider almost constantly. Of the time teens spend online, about fifty-five percent of the time is for social media.

Does this mean we’re addicted? Well, sixty-one percent of adults in a survey consider themselves addicted to their cell phone. In a different survey, a third of Americans would rather give up sex for a year than their cell phone. Fifty-five percent would rather give up eating out, forty-five percent would rather give up vacations, a third would be willing to stop seeing friends in person rather than giving up their cell phone, and almost half would work extra days each week to keep their cell phone. Let’s remember, it wasn’t that long ago that we survived and thrived without cell phones. The average person checks their phone almost 150 times a day. That’s the average.

There is an addictive quality to receiving texts, calls, and social media notifications. Cell phones have become more important than people. [Brief joke involving a phone call from his wife.] Hopefully that’s the last bad joke you’ll have to endure from me, and I appreciate my wife playing along, but that’s just hopefully one example of showing that cell phones have become more important than people and our interactions with them.

Why This Matters – Associated Problems

So why does this all matter? This addiction has led to the increase in several problems in our society: poor communication and being easily distracted; an increase in depression, anxiety, social isolation, and suicide; interference with intimacy and relationships; cyberbullying; pornography; and gambling, as well as others.

Let’s start with poor communication and distraction. Technology has a negative effect on both the quality and quantity of face-to-face communication. Texting, email, social media has significantly replaced in-person and on-the-phone communication. Studies show when children use digital communication extensively, it can curtail face-to-face experiences, which is necessary for them to develop and master important social skills.

Over three quarters of parents report the use of media devices during their most recent family meal. About the same, three quarters of high school teachers say that students being distracted by their cell phones is a major problem in their classroom. Among teachers, almost forty percent report that social media and device overuse directly derive underdeveloped social skills, and over eighty percent of teachers note widespread concentration issues. Studies show simply having a mobile phone present during a meaningful conversation lowers ratings of trust, perceived partner empathy, and relationship quality, as well as making participants rate their interaction less fulfilling.

Mental Health Issues

Let’s dive into mental health issues. And this is just a quick overview. This could easily have been a four-hour plus presentation and conversation and discussion, but I’m just trying to hit the highlights so we can go over the main points.

Let’s look at some of the numbers. Here in Utah, in a 2023 survey, over forty percent of youth felt sad or hopeless almost every day for two weeks. This is almost a ten-point increase from data gathered in 2017. In a US study, ages twelve to seventeen, about fifteen to eighteen percent of youth in those age ranges reported suffering from at least one major depressive episode in the past year. That was 2024 data, and that’s up from eleven percent from the years combined 2005 to 2014.

So why the increase? Why is this happening? Why in greater rates? The pressure and stress on our youth today is immensely greater than decades ago, immensely greater. Teens have a strong need and desire to fit in and be accepted, but what they see on social media is the portrayal of a perfect life for that person and their family.

But are the use of cell phones, social media, and internet really the cause of the rise in mental health issues? Well, let’s remember this number, that smartphone ownership amongst youth became very prevalent between the years of 2011 and 2012, and let’s look at the data.

[References graph of percent of major depressive episodes in the past twelve months by age group, focusing on ages 12–17, showing relatively steady rates from 2009–2011, then skyrocketing after 2011–2012.]

Let’s examine also suicide rates. [References graph of suicide rates amongst US youth and young adults ages 10–24, relatively stable 2001–2010, then skyrocketing after 2011–2012.]

But an association of increasing rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide from 2011–12 and beyond, along with the fact that smartphone use became commonplace, is not proof of causation. So let’s look at studies. There are several studies; I only have time to just go over one that has a nice graph here.

[References graph of proportion of adolescents with depression or low psychological well-being by hours per day of media or smartphone use. Girls (red) show sharp negative impact after about 30 minutes; boys (blue) after about 2 hours; overall (green). Study capped at greater than 7 hours; notes average teen spends over 9 hours.]

Suicide is the second leading cause of death for ages ten to twenty-four in the United States, as well as here in Utah. More teenagers and young adults die from suicide than from cancer, heart disease, AIDS, birth defects, stroke, pneumonia, influenza, chronic lung disease combined. This is a real problem that we’re facing in our society. When I worked in the ER I saw several attempted suicides, as well as unfortunately some successful ones, and I’ve even had one of my own patients commit suicide, and it’s absolutely devastating.

So parents, grandparents, talk to your kids about how they’re truly feeling. In our clinic, we screen all patients nine and above at every checkup for depression and anxiety. I will tell you it’s rather common to see very significant scores on the depression and anxiety screeners that parents had no idea about. Don’t just assume, since your child is doing well in school, has friends, and is doing well in their sports and activities, that their mental health is okay. Open up to your children and share with them your mental health struggles, as we’ve all had them, so that they may feel more comfortable and willing to share their own true feelings. And we’ll talk more about things to help later on.

Interference with Intimacy and Relationships

So let’s turn now to interference with intimacy and relationships. Over half of partnered adults say that their romantic partner is often or sometimes distracted by their cell phone during a conversation. Thankfully, I’m not one of those—and probably gonna take heat from my wife for even saying that. So, it does happen to us.

Almost one in three teens experience digital dating abuse or harassment. In a specific study, thirty percent of teens in relationships say they receive text messages ten, twenty, thirty times an hour from a partner, keeping tabs on them, asking where they are, what they’re doing, and who they’re with. And in that study, between seventy to eighty percent of their parents had no idea that this abusive behavior was going on.

Almost twenty-five percent of teens in relationships report communicating with their boyfriend or girlfriend and receiving hourly check-ins between midnight and five AM. Over two-thirds of teens say that boyfriends or girlfriends sharing private or embarrassing pictures or videos on cell phones or computers is a serious problem.

Data from a study earlier this year showed that thirty-three percent, almost thirty-two percent, reported having received a sext or a sexually explicit text, and almost twenty-five percent said they had sent one. Compare that to the data given in 2019—you can see almost a ten-point increase in both of those numbers. As scary as that is, look at the next line: percentage of minors who’ve shown their own, shared their own genitals via text—ages nine to twelve years, six percent. Staggering. Ages thirteen to seventeen, one in five, twenty percent. This is sobering.

Cyberbullying, Gambling, Gaming, Sleep

Cyberbullying—that’s using digital media to communicate false, embarrassing, or hostile information about another person. Almost half of youth ages thirteen to seventeen have been the victims of cyberbullying. We haven’t even really addressed a lot of the hard stuff yet, and you can start to see the layers of pressure and stress and why it is so hard on our youth today.

Gambling. About a third of boys age eleven to seventeen report gambling in the past year, and you can look at the specifics of age. Younger boys age eleven, it was about thirty-two percent, and almost half of boys age seventeen have reported gambling.

Gaming—this probably comes to no surprise, our teenagers game. Teens age thirteen to seventeen, about eighty-five percent play video games, over forty percent play daily, and you can look at the statistics specifically yourself, but it’s no surprise that boys play more than girls, but girls definitely play video games as well.

Sleep. This is something that I don’t think that we talk enough about and put enough importance on. Cell phone and media use leads to slower sleep onset, less REM sleep, and shorter sleep duration. Sleep is key for growth, emotional health, and physical health. For kids aged eleven to twelve, they should get a minimum of nine to twelve hours per day, and teenagers thirteen to eighteen should get eight to ten hours at minimum a day. Studies show nearly three quarters of high school students do not sleep enough on school nights. Don’t worry, that’s just five out of every seven nights for most of the year.

So let’s take a breath here, because I know I’m laying on a lot of hard topics, and we’re going to get into the harder stuff. So this is a slide here to remind us that Christ is there, and there’s hope in Christ. He is reaching out to us, and I believe that there is hope with this, but I don’t want to get so overwhelmed that we’re not going to deal with this, because we are, but this is just a reminder that Christ is watching over us.

Pornography and Sexual Issues

So let’s switch gears to pornography and sexual issues. Pornography is what I consider a highly addictive drug. My list—this is according to Rich Greenberg, not anywhere else will you find online—but what I consider in my experience to be the most addictive substances, quote unquote, in order would be nicotine, then pornography, then heroin, and I truly mean that. It is dangerous and has significant risks, so we need to educate ourselves and our youth.

The fact that we need to have these in-depth, serious discussions with our young children is nothing other than disgusting, but if we don’t, the world, i.e., the internet, friends, et cetera, will.

Why is it so common? First and foremost, there is easy access. It is everywhere, and we’ll get into the specifics of that. And second, there is a natural desire. I often like to educate parents who are having teens going through this when they ask me specifics. Compare offering of drugs versus pornography. Imagine you had a fourteen-year-old son, and I said to him, I would like you to start using cocaine. Their initial reaction would be, absolutely not. They have no inherent desire to start doing so. They’ve heard their whole life that it’s bad for them, and unless they start hanging out with other people that are doing those dangerous drugs and are subject to peer pressure, the likelihood that that happens is on the lower end. Now compare this to pornography. They have a natural desire and curiosity as they go through puberty to have an affinity for that, and so that’s very different when people don’t understand, well, why are they doing it so much? Let’s talk about that.

Scenarios that I like to share with families. Picture a toddler in a room a few feet high filled with marshmallows. Left unchecked, they would eat until they were sick. Or a person in the desert who hasn’t had anything to drink for three days, and all of a sudden they’re given endless water and lemonade, they would drink excessively. Our youth, brothers and sisters, are hungry, i.e., they have a natural desire to understand sexual issues, and we’ve given them a world filled with virtual marshmallows and lemonade, i.e., the internet, and unlimited access to it, and then we’re surprised when they eat and drink some of it.

Let’s look at the stats. Data from 2023 show that almost three quarters of teens aged thirteen to seventeen have watched pornography online. Over half reported seeing it by the age of thirteen, fifteen percent by the age of ten, and the average age of viewing pornography is twelve. Some people, I think, here in our culture may say, well, this is national data, maybe this doesn’t apply to Utah, maybe this doesn’t apply to our LDS culture. I can say I practice medicine in a pediatric practice in Draper, in a very similar socioeconomic neighborhood as far as cultural and religious backgrounds, very similar to where we live here in Holladay, and I would say that this number of seventy-three percent is either on or maybe a little bit low.

When kids are asked why they watch pornography, forty-five percent say that they felt online pornography gives them helpful information about sex. Sixty percent of students say that they watch pornography in order to learn more about sex and gaps in their sexual education, and although three quarters admitted that pornography creates unrealistic expectations.

And again, as I said earlier, I don’t want you to view this and feel like weight and pressure, like, oh my gosh. I want you to view this in a manner of understanding all the specifics. We’re already going through this problem. Our youth are going through this problem. So let’s understand it so that we can use the specifics to help us fix it.

Two thirds of teens feel okay about the amount of pornography that they watch, although half report feeling guilty or ashamed after watching it. And I can tell you in my professional practice, I think that number of fifty percent is grossly underestimated. I think it’s closer to ninety percent of youth who are watching pornography feel absolutely shame about it.

Staggering: youth aged thirteen to seventeen, more than half say they have viewed violent pornography, including scenes of rape, choking, or having someone in pain. Of those viewing pornography, we typically think it’s all boys. The studies will show, different studies will show that it’s about a third girls and two thirds boys. Again, in my practice, I find that it’s a higher proportion of boys versus girls, but it’s definitely not only the boys.

The vast majority of teens watching pornography are masturbating during watching it, and one small study, ninety-eight percent. And I don’t say that to be crude. I say that because I think it’s important for us to understand that our youth are not just watching it to learn about sex and satisfying their curiosity about sex. In addition, because this is happening, they’re receiving sexual gratification. And that is key, I think, to understanding why pornography is so challenging, is so difficult for them to overcome and has this almost snowball effect of difficulty for them to get over it. It’s so easy and it conditions them to have a positive along with it.

Where do people watch pornography? Pretty much everywhere. Twitter, forty percent; dedicated pornography sites, thirty-seven percent; Instagram, thirty-three percent; Snapchat, thirty-two percent; search engines, thirty percent. This adds up to obviously more than a hundred because people watch it in more than one location. Ninety percent of pornography is watched on mobile devices, but I can tell you from my professional practice, I usually ask kids when I interview them and able to counsel them privately, I like to know where they’re watching it to keep educated. And I can tell you anywhere there is internet, they are watching it, including phones, tablets, computers, TVs, gaming systems—Xbox, PlayStation. You think, well, okay, I’m going to give my son two hours alone in the basement to watch or to play video games. That may not all that’s what’s happening down there. So, it happens everywhere, unfortunately.

Where does it take place physically? At home, at church, at school, sports events, friends’ houses, cars, et cetera.

It’s not just our youth. Different studies: one study of over fourteen hundred US adults, over ninety percent of men and over sixty percent of women report having watched pornography in the past month. In other studies, eighty-seven percent of men and almost thirty percent of women view it weekly, and in other studies, it’s about seventy percent men and thirty percent women. Irregardless of what the exact prevalence is, this is common amongst not only youth, but adults.

Risks and Harms of Pornography

So why is it so harmful? What are the risks of pornography? Adolescent pornography is significantly associated with earlier sexual debut, increased casual sexual behavior, increased sexual aggression both as perpetrators and victims, and negative condom attitudes. Youth pornography is associated with increased rates of depression, anxiety, increased risk of teen pregnancy, child sex abuse, sexual trafficking, and a distorted view of relationships between men and women, as well as erectile dysfunction, both now in their youth as well as in their future. I’ve actually had two or three patients who presented to me with a desire to have sexual relations with their teenage partner and were unable to, and my first question was, you’re watching pornography, and they said, how did you know? And I said, that’s the reason why it’s happening. And chronic pornography use can lead to erectile dysfunction in the future when they’re married, which can be obviously devastating.

A large literature review out of the UK showed four key themes of harmful attitudes and behaviors associated with the use of pornography: one, viewing women as sex objects; number two, shaping men’s sexual expectations of women, i.e., expecting sex to be as watched on pornography, including violence, unrealistic scenarios, and multiple partners; and third and fourth, most scary is an acceptance and perpetration of sexual aggression towards women associated with pornography.

Women should be revered and honored just as Heavenly Father views them. Pornography teaches boys and men that women are objects for their pleasure rather than the beautiful spiritual beings that should be treated with the utmost respect and love. This is a hard, hard thing to talk about for me because I know how lucky I am to have a special wife and how beautiful and special she is to me. So this is scary to think that my son or other boys would have this view of women. And this view is in direct opposition to our belief in our culture of the sacred equal role of women and the divine nature of eternal families.

Sexual Behavior Statistics

Let’s view some statistics on sex. This is a busy slide, and we’re just gonna view the top line there that has that red outlined box on it. So this is the percentage in the United States of high school students who have ever had sex. We can see there’s a positive trend, actually. In 2013, it was almost half, and in 2023, that number had gone down to thirty-two. So that’s actually a good thing. Unfortunately, I think the reason for this is because of so much pornography, so I’m not sure that that’s actually a positive, but that’s the statistics as they are, so still relatively common.

A study locally done at Utah State University in 2022 showed that twenty percent of students reported having sex in middle school or high school here locally, and over a third said that they had had non-penetrative sex, so touching and so forth.

Oral sex. What do you think about oral sex? Do they consider it sex? Very scary. In 2007, data showed that only twenty percent of youth would say that oral sex is considered sex. And if you compare that from data around 2000, that number had gone the wrong way by half. Oral sex is the most common form of sexual behavior amongst our adolescents. Nationally, in 2023 data, youth age fifteen to nineteen reported forty-four percent had participated in oral sex. And we see that that number had gone down again, and it was about sixty percent in 2018 data. So again, positive that it’s going down, but unfortunately the reason it’s going down is because of pornography, in my opinion.

So are our kids who are having sex doing it safely? We see a negative association when we looked at this other line again, the red text box, of a US study looking at rates of condom use during the last sexual intercourse. We see in 2013 it was almost sixty percent, and ten years later there’s a ten-point decrease of people who report condom use. In that Utah State University study that I referenced earlier, thirty percent of those who had reported having sex in middle school or high school reported using no form of protection. And as more evidence, there’s a large European study that showed the proportion of sexually active adolescents who use a condom at last intercourse decreased from 2014 to 2020 about ten points for boys and about six points for girls, which is very scary considering the potential ramifications of not only unwanted teen pregnancies, but also of very serious diseases, including genital warts and cancers that can be potentially serious and deadly for our youth.

Impact on Families

So what has all of this done to our families? Youth, and to much degree adults, can fulfill all their needs and desires with the use of a cell phone and internet while never leaving their room, negating the need for human interaction, fulfilling all social needs, sexual needs, et cetera, by themselves. It’s easy for this to lead to isolation, anxiety, and depression. In my opinion, one of, if not the biggest issues attacking our family is what we’re talking about today. We in our culture understand the importance of families, both earthly and eternally. These issues degrade personal interactions between spouses, parents, and children. They have replaced in many ways opportunities for true and meaningful interaction.

Solutions, Dos, and Don’ts

So let’s go over some solutions, some dos and don’ts.

Do go home and hug your children and tell them how much you love them. Do counsel with your spouse and family about how to approach these issues. Every child and situation needs an individualized plan, even though basic tenets apply to all. Do pray about how to approach your children regarding these issues. Do fast and attend the temple to gain insight about these topics.

Some don’ts. Do not go home and take away all your children’s devices and all access to the internet and social media tonight, and I’m serious. We’ll talk more about that. Do not go home today and accuse your children of watching pornography. But if you find out that they are watching it, don’t shame them. They’re already doing it to themselves. They need love, support, and help, not shame.

Let’s talk about some solutions. In this last general conference, Elder Fowler said something that struck me that I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to forget. He was talking about a conversation with his children, and he was showing them pictures when they were younger, and he said, as of the date of this picture, what had you done to earn our love? They lowered their eyes and said nothing. I asked them to look up and said, you were right. You did nothing to earn our love. By that same token, there is nothing you can ever do that will unearn or remove that love from you. You did not earn it. You cannot lose it. It is yours forever. Then in a beautiful way, he related that how our Heavenly Father and Savior feel about us. We did not earn their love and our Savior’s sacrifice, but they will never stop loving us.

We need to strike a balance, brothers and sisters. Our youth rely on social media for communication with peers and society, in schools, et cetera. Taking away all of this can lead to social isolation and depression. I will share with you a personal example. My son, Zach, who’s twenty-four, so it wasn’t that very long ago, he was a senior at Skyline High. He had a cell phone at that point, but I refused to allow him to have any social media. He was such a good egg, he followed it, but he was unhappy about it, and he became very isolated and started to become depressed. And the bottom line was that all of his friends with going to parties and different activities were no longer inviting each other by a text. He came to me and said, Dad, I don’t think my friends like me anymore. And I said, why? And he said, well, they’re doing all these things and they’re not including me. And it turns out that all of the invites were coming over social media. The last straw was he missed his senior breakfast at Skyline High because the high school only publicized it over social media, and I finally gave in and gave him social media despite my hesitancy because of these fears. So we can’t just take it all away and pretend like they’re going to be able to function. Okay, we have to strike a balance.

As adults, we need to lead by example. We need to use our devices and media less if we expect our kids to. We need to monitor our children’s devices and social media, and I feel very strongly about this. This is not about doing it in a distrustful way. You should not do it in secret ways and not let your children know. I think you should be open and honest with your children and say, I’m not accusing you, but like other things, I’m your parent, I own that phone, and I want you to be safe, and there are a lot of dangers out there, so I’m not accusing you of anything, but I need to view it. Because if you don’t, even if you do, you probably won’t see everything, but if you don’t, you’ll miss out on important things. I think personally this is no different than giving them other rules and making sure we follow through with them, such as a curfew or chores. Show me a parent who hasn’t given a curfew at midnight and then check to make sure your kid followed it, or given them a chore and follow through to make sure that they actually did it.

This is something way out of my realm and understanding, but I believe we need to find a way to petition our schools and legislature to have less dependency on devices and media for our youth. We need to promote good sleep habits. I recommend no screen time for at least an hour before bed. We need to allow youth access to devices, but limit that access. We need to use filters, and I strongly recommend any device that has internet, which I named numerous, should never be in the bedroom, especially at night.

Contrast these scenarios that I often share with families. Your fifteen-year-old son is sitting on the couch with all of the family at two PM, and up pops an inappropriate picture. Very easy to turn that off. Now picture that same fifteen-year-old who’s going through puberty and has normal curiosities and desires, ten o’clock at night, alone in their bedroom, not choosing to do anything wrong, just scrolling through internet, looking at some dumb social media site or whatever, and up pops that same inappropriate picture. Much easier to click on it with curiosity in that scenario.

So I hear all the time, but he uses his cell phone or she uses her cell phone as an alarm. I say, great, back in the day, we didn’t have cell phones. Go buy a six dollar alarm clock, put it in their room, hang up their cell phone in your room or the family room. TVs, anything with internet should not be in their room. Just too much of a temptation.

If your child is struggling with depression and anxiety, reach out to your pediatrician or primary care physician to get help. There are many modalities that we can use to help them. Therapy is key. I know a lot of people and a lot of youth are scared of therapy or have some crazy thoughts about what therapy involves. All therapy involves, in my opinion, is helping our youth handle stress and pressure better. Show me one of your youth who isn’t undergoing significant pressure and stress. It doesn’t exist. Medications, that would be on a case-by-case basis in discussions with specifics of you and your doctor and the child or the adolescent. Help with sleep, as we’ve talked about, there’s things that we can do to help them sleep, whether it be social things that we talked about, what we call sleep hygiene and/or medications. I think it’s so key for our kids who are undergoing depression and suicidal thoughts to avoid media and friends who are discussing those things. That’s like putting themselves in a bad situation. They can still be friend to that friend, but they can’t be talking about them with depression, with their friend’s suicidal thoughts. It’s just bringing them down. And so monitoring the sites that they’re on and the social media that they’re on is key.

Exercise, not only key for our physical health, key for our mental and emotional health. Long and short-term goal lists. I have all my patients who are undergoing significant depression and suicidal thoughts make a short-term goal list, what they want to accomplish in the next week, month, year, and twenty-five years, five, ten years, because I need to give them something to look forward to, to get through this dark time, something to fight for. And finally, hope. Brothers and sisters, they need to see and know there’s a light at the end of this very dark tunnel.

Let’s talk about solutions. I think we need a paradigm shift in how we educate our youth and talk to them about sex. Clearly what we’re doing right now is not working. Three quarters of them are watching pornography, and over half of them say they’re doing it to learn more about sex.

I think in our Latter-day Saint culture, we often discuss sex and intimacy in a negative way, albeit because it’s an effort to try and get them not to partake of it before marriage, but we tell them, sex is bad, don’t do that, that’s not for you, it’s only for when you’re older, and that can lead to a lot of confusion. Then you see a boy, he goes on his mission, and you start all these negative things about sex, and the mission president reinforces that, don’t be alone with a girl, don’t look at a girl, et cetera, et cetera, and then all of a sudden he gets ready to come home from his mission like my son did, and he’s in his final interview, and the mission president said, great job, Elder Greenberg, go home, get married, and make babies. They’re so confused. And then they come home and they get married and we say, it’s so happy for you, it’s so wonderful, go enjoy your sex life with your wife, it’s so special. And here they are, I’ve heard all my life, it’s so bad and wrong and there’s such this conflict, but yet as they go through puberty, they have a natural desire. So what should we do?

Personally, I think we should start by telling them when they’re young that intimacy between a husband and wife is beautiful, it’s special, it’s sacred, it feels great, it was a gift given to us by our Heavenly Father to help spouses bond. I used to think that I’m crazy since I joined the church just about thirty years ago. I’ve had this thought and just viewed it and mostly kept it to myself, told it a few people, because I never hear anyone really espousing the same views. While doing research on this topic, I came across an article published in an LDS article by a social worker, Dan Gray, titled Talking to Our Youth About Pornography, and it says very much, not exactly the same, but very similar things, that talking negative about them leads to confusion.

Obviously, when we talk about sex with our kids, we need to share with them that our Heavenly Father has taught and commanded us that not only is intimacy special, but it’s to be partaken of only in marriage between a husband and a wife. Let them know it’s normal to have curiosity and desires about sex. That’s typical as they go through puberty, when we’re all telling them negative, don’t, don’t, don’t, but our youth as they go through puberty are experiencing feelings and changes in their body and having dreams and so forth. It’s confusing to them, and that’s part of the reason why I think that pornography is a small piece of why it’s so common.

Let our youth know, if they’re watching pornography or engage in sexual acts, that you’re not going to shame or yell at them. Invite them to be open and honest with you and tell them that you’re going to support them. We’ve all made mistakes and deserve and need forgiveness from our earthly as well as heavenly families.

Youth and adults, there is help and there is hope. Nothing you can do will ever change the fact that you’re a child of God, and our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ love you and want to help you. If you have mental health struggles, there is help and you can get better. If you’re watching pornography, tell our youth, you’re not a bad person. You’re good and special, but pornography is harmful. The adversary has cunningly used a gift from Heavenly Father, which is our curiosity and desire for sexual intimacy that should only take place in marriage, and has used that to ensnare us in the trap of pornography. Many people overcome this addiction. It’s never too late, but you need support. Tell them to turn to their parents, to their bishop, other church leaders, and other trusted adults in their life to start to get help.

Take-Home Points and Closing

Some take-home points. Our youth are being attacked unlike anything that has happened in history, yet in general they’re amazing and inspirational in their strength. Let’s educate ourselves on truly what’s happening to our youth and use that to create an individualized plan to support them in their journey. Show an outpouring of love and understanding to your children, in words and in action. There is hope in our Savior, brothers and sisters.

Few quotes from elders in conference, and then we’ll close. Elder Dunn said, because he marked the path and led the way, there is no portion of our mortal sojourn he has not trod. He has not only known the road, he knows you and what you, as noble offspring of the divine, are capable of. And if I can just turn around what Elder Fowler said, I thought it was so powerful. Just the reverse, there is nothing our kids can do that should ever turn our love away from them, just as there is nothing we can do that will ever turn away the love of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have for us.

And finally, Elder Eyring—Matthew Eyring said, it’s important to not allow our challenges to negatively impact our faith. Our Savior Jesus Christ suffered for us. He knows exactly how we feel, especially in our darkest and most trying times. As you humbly turn to the Lord and cast your burdens on Him, You have his promise. Draw near unto me, and I will draw near unto you. He will provide comfort. Christ will always be there to rescue us spiritually.

I want to say thank you for allowing me to discuss hard topics that threaten our youth, and thank you for the trust of our stake leaders and me to discuss these topics. And before we turn to questions, I made some of my favorite Jewish cookies, so in addition to putting together controversial slideshows for church, I also like to bake, and then my wife’s going to put them out. You can take some as you leave. And with that, I will leave time for questions and discussions. Thank you.

I think Rob and some other people are going to have microphones if there are discussion questions or things that you want to add. I think we have one there. No one’s thrown anything at me yet, so I think we’re doing okay.

Q&A Session

[Audience Member 1]:
I was curious if you have any tips on how to transition responsibilities, so like at home we can be turning off the internet at night or we can be placing these limits, but then they turn 18, they’re leaving for college, how to transition them so that they’re able to take more ownership and control over their internet use over time.

[Dr. Greenberg]:
Yeah, great question. That brings up another thought. I’ve had so many instances where parents say, don’t worry, Dr. Greenberg, when I tell them don’t have anything in the internet, any phones or devices in the room, they say, my husband’s an IT expert, we have the Google Home Wi-Fi control, they can’t get into anything, and then when I have a one-on-one conversation, they’re all watching pornography. So don’t be misled that just because—it’s great to have, but kids are smarter than we are. But it’s a great question about how to transition them, and I think it depends on an individualized plan. My son left on his mission at nineteen, he came home at twenty-one, and actually we still had him hang up his phone in the family room. Because it’s just a temptation. I mean, it’s a temptation for them as it is for us. I hang up my phone next to my bed. I probably shouldn’t, but sometimes I’m on call and I need it. But it’s a hard balance to strike because there is that temptation for them, even when they’re eighteen, nineteen, twenty. And so I’m not saying you can’t have that, but I think depends on the kid, depends on how decision-making they are, how responsible they are, how mature they are, and you need to come up with prayerfully an individualized plan to see what you think is best in that scenario. Clearly what I did probably was the wrong thing for my son when I took a hard line approach and said, no way are you getting social media. And there was pushback, pushback, pushback. And I probably took the wrong approach of being too hard-nosed about it because he suffered for it. And so I think we need to strike that balance and it’s all individualized based on that. So sorry it doesn’t answer it specifically, but that’s what I would say.

[Audience Member 2]:
I was just going to offer a little bit insight. I think a lot of times too, the same with the sexual talks, that we have talks about why we have these rules, why we don’t want them having internet in their room, why we want it upstairs, so that as they turn eighteen and go out of the house, it’s not just, you know, every line has been drawn and now it’s gone. It’s that you’ve helped them make those decisions. Maybe they’ve made some mistakes at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and you’ve talked them through those mistakes so that as they’re eighteen and they go out of the house, they have experience, they have insight, so they have some skills to be able to do it on their own.

[Dr. Greenberg]:
Yes, I think that’s a great point. Kind of like when I said to view your kids’ devices, let them know it’s not because they’re not trustworthy and a good person. It’s because a hundred percent of people will get tempted. And so you’re there to try and help them understand that those dangers exist with media and try to balance and teach them how to do it responsibly. So great comment.

[Audience Member 3]:
Question. When you talk about monitoring, what can that look like in an effective way? Because we agree our kids are smarter than us. And accountability is important.

[Dr. Greenberg]:
Absolutely. And I think if you were the smartest individual and you were monitoring, you’re not going to find everything, right? A lot of kids have what’s called a Finsta or a fake Instagram account. They have one that shows all the happy and great things that they’re doing for their parents to see, and then they have their real account, and there’s no way to know because they can make it on their own. So there’s always that potential, but I think it looks like letting your kids know from the first time that they’re getting any devices and any social media that you’re going to be reviewing it with them, and that if you find that they’re going to have an extra account that you don’t know about, that you’re going to come down on them, and they’re going to lose privileges. And let them know again, it’s because you love them and because you understand more and experience more, but I think that sometimes, especially if you’re feeling suspicious, that can look like, Johnny, let me see your phone. I need to look at all your texts. Well, they may be embarrassed about that, but still, why should there be things that they’re texting that they should be embarrassed about? Or looking at their social media page and those kinds of things. I’ll be honest with you, I don’t do social media hardly at all. I have them just so we can promote some books I’ve written and other things, and so my wife handles it. So I’m probably the wrong person to ask how technically to do it, because I’m almost never on social media, but I do believe that monitoring it, looking at their texts, looking at their media, to let them know, again, I mean, if we gave them a curfew of midnight and they knew we were dead asleep and we would never ever check, probably if they knew there was no penalty, they might start to abuse it. But if they know every once in a while we’re there up reading a book at midnight when they come in and be like, hey, how was your date? They know that they’re going to be held accountable. And so I think if it’s done in a loving way, like Megan said, from the time that they’re young, teaching them that this is helpful so that you can learn how to do it, that’s how I would say, but it’s going to be different for every scenario. But I would start, especially when they’re young, being very involved and as they’re making great choices, becoming less, but not involved at all.

[Audience Member 4]:
Youth are pressured a lot to have a phone. And I think it’s getting younger and younger, elementary school even, their kids are carrying phones. Is there any—I know it depends a lot on the individual child and maturity, et cetera, et cetera, but are there some guidelines about at what age one could start?

[Dr. Greenberg]:
They’re really not. I think probably fourteen. I know that seems extreme. I tell all my patients at ten, you have to have every talk with your child, every talk. I know it’s beyond mind-blowing and disgusting is what I tell the parents, but that ten-year-old is in fourth or potentially fifth grade. In fourth grade, there are a couple kids who have a phone. In fifth grade, it’s about twenty percent. By sixth grade, it’s about a third, and by seventh grade and on, it’s almost universal. So you can be hard-nosed, you know, I think it’s good to say don’t give them a phone until they’re older, but don’t be naive to not understand that all their friends are watching stuff and sharing it with their classmates. So you’re right, it’s getting younger and younger, but I just don’t think they’re mature enough to make those decisions when they’re presented. I mean, we’ve had patients come in whose parents found their five and six-year-old watching pornography. I mean, you see a two-year-old on a tablet all the time. And so they’re too young to understand how to deal with those precious, difficult situations, and they’re not mature enough, even if they’re the most mature nine and ten-year-old, they’re just not mature enough. So I think waiting till they’re older, there might be some kids at fourteen who are not ready, but I think that’s kind of a good balance, but they will be way behind the curve, I will tell you if you wait until they’re fourteen, but that’s what my personal belief is.

[Audience Member 5]:
I think I so agree with what you say in terms of age. I think for parents to talk about certain things at age-appropriate times is very important so that they know, so that they’re comfortable about talking about certain subjects. And I think for a parent to explain the body and to let them understand what the body is all about and what it’s for, why the Lord gave us a body and how it’s to be used, I think that can start very early with children. And I had one thought also as relating to, as at our age, my age, raising children was nothing like what it is now. That is for sure. And but our son, who’s raised his family now, shared something that they did in their home that I thought made a lot of sense. He said that they talked a lot about these subjects, but at a certain time when they had their media, when they had their phones, they agreed when they got their phones that they would have a family discussion, once a week or however often it may have been, that they would look at each other’s phones. They’d look at the parents’ phones, they could, they’d talk about it, and if anybody had deleted something, that was a subject to be discussed. So I, they felt that that was a good way for them to help their children.

[Dr. Greenberg]:
Great. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Audience Member 6]:
Thank you, I just want to say thank you for this information. Is there a way that we could get this? I don’t know if you talked about that.

[Dr. Greenberg]:
Absolutely not. No, of course. I can share it with Rob or Darcy and then share it. As long as you’re just going to use it for personal use, I would feel better about not you giving the presentation just because I don’t know how it would be taken in different contexts, but if you want to use it for your own personal use, I’m more than happy to share. Or if you want, I mean, a lot of this is data gathered from different places, and I kind of have a Word document about most of where I gathered this data. So if you want more information and you want this, if the stake is good with it, then I’m good with it. President Wagner, I’m going to put you on the spot. Is it okay if we share these slides with people who are interested? [Response affirmative.] So if it’s for personal use, then we can share it.

[Audience Member 6 continued / other]:
And also was one, same with the other presentation as well, because I want to know what the other kids are talking about, use those together, so that when we’re having conversations. I know that’s being recorded.

[Discussion about recording vs. slides.]

[Introducer / Moderator]:
Let’s just do a question or two more, because…

[Dr. Greenberg]:
And I’m happy to stay after and talk if anyone wants to.

[Moderator]:
Yeah, we’d like to give President Wagner, so we’ll take two more questions, and then.

[Audience Member on legal issues]:
I just wondered about also talking to kids about legal ramifications. Like, in my previous life, I was a school counselor, and we had a young middle schooler who had sent some sexually explicit pictures of herself, and it was devastating what became of that. She was a really sweet, good girl. But also, I have a friend whose daughter received sexually explicit pictures of a young man. She screenshotted it and took it to the school, and the police told her that she was in possession of child pornography. Even though she was trying to help her daughter. So I think, and I’ve talked with the school principals here in this area, and I know at least at the junior high and the high school, they have principals that spend almost full time, vice principals spending almost full time going through these kind of accusations. So I would just say it’s important for all of us to understand the laws, which vary in different states, and also help our kids to understand that this stuff can ruin a life.

[Dr. Greenberg]:
Absolutely devastating, and we should share it with our youth. I will say in my experience, having those kind of conversations with them is not effective. Like, they don’t really, I mean, just to put it bluntly, they don’t care as much about, oh, I’ll get in trouble and things like that, even though they should, or it may ruin your—you may not get into the college or whatever if this gets out and it’s out for the world. Unfortunately, they don’t care as much about that, but I think they should know it, I agree.

[Audience Member continued]:
Yeah, and I was going to say, and also maybe trying to help with that, with the schools, I mean, just make sure that there’s understanding with kids, you know, with principals and I don’t know, because some of this stuff has blindsided me as a parent and as a community council person.

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